There are tons of reasons why building a crypto community is so important. One, it allows you to keep an eye on what type of audience your project is reaching. Two, you can use it as a communication portal for customer support issues. Three, it can be a great means of spreading PR, marketing assets, and engagement pieces. The list continues for eons, but the main point is that having a cryptocurrency community can only benefit you.
Mati Greenspan, the CEO and founder of Quantum Economics, former lead market analyst at eToro. A world-renowned financial analyst. He has been featured on Bloomberg, Forbes, Wall Street, and many global outlets. It’s our privilege to be able to talk and just have a chat with Mati Greenspan.
Educating The New Generation with Digital Assets
The next generation is educating themselves. They’re arming themselves with knowledge and executing. It’s quite interesting to see the notion of programmable money is still relatively new. But it’s only reaching mass awareness and it’s extremely exciting seeing different kinds of use cases people are coming up with. In a day you know a piece of music can actually be a financial asset. It’s just the possibilities are limitless. I’m speaking with all kinds of projects every single day with interesting ideas and I’m very optimistic about what the future holds.
Where Do You See NFTs and Cryptocurrencies Communities Thriving?
It’s a transition. The old analog, traditional finance to the new. And it’s reminiscence a lot of the early days of the internet where the early renditions of websites were like kind of clucky and weird. Just interesting and crazy with people who understood the format and they created with it. And that’s exactly what we’re seeing right now. And I think that those things will be polished over time and we’ll hash those kind of things out and basically for any kind of media, its the traditional financial markets, as we know it.
Where Is The Most Powerful Channel For Cryptocurrencies/Digital Assets Type Of Content?
I spend alot of time on Twitter and LinkedIn. That’s incidental. It’s just a way of communicating. We’ve got our newsletter we are sending out for free to whoever wants it. I feel like we find a better social media outlet or platform at some point. Twitter’s not perfect, it’s got its flaws.
And I thought that we’ll have steam as a great contender but it didn’t pan out. Quantum Economics is running probably 20 to 30 Twitter spaces in a month and we just started posting Decentraland events. It’s something new, like the early days of the internet. It’s not easy, there’s technical glitches. Twitter space is terrible if you’re not using an iPhone to be quite perfectly frank. It’s not a stable platform. Discord and Telegram are alot more stable for that. But the scene isn’t there. The scene is on Twitter spaces at the moment but people migrate platforms rather quickly, given the content and network effect.
What Was It Like Working for eToro?
eToro is an amazing place. Only good experiences working at eToro. I really love the CEO. When I was there, especially in the early days, there was always this sense of listening to the customer and implementing all of copy trading, the entire idea. It didn’t come up in a boardroom or something, it was literally eToro talking to their customers and going “what can we do” and how can we make the first iteration of social trading – a chat room that was right inside the platform. Users can talk to other users and most brokers don’t wanna do that. And especially brokers in the retail section, clients are losing money and over fist especially with leverage trading and they did it quite successfully.
eToro’s Unique Standpoint - Platform Copy Trading
The next stepping stone in that was people going, “I bought Apple, I made so much money and people are going to say no, you’re a liar, you didn’t really do that”. And people going wait a second, let’s verify this. And then they came up with the open book product which actually showed people’s portfolio, their history of trades and their stats. Easy progression from there to go – I can see his portfolio, let me copy that. That was the killer app right there, especially with the rise of social media networks in general. It was being at the right place at the right time. eToro was the original community for copy traders.
What Made The eToro Community So Successful?
Crypto Trading
If you have a product like copy trader, you need people who are doing well on the platform enough to copy and then you need also people who are copying eToro. There were a few copycats for the copy trader product, they are not coming close to what we’re doing at eToro. I remember the conversations internally at the time, should we take action? Patenting copy trader and going after people for that. The answer was always, we don’t need to, it’s okay. Let’s just focus on improving the product and continue to build it. That was the motto, is just running faster than your competitors, running much faster and really care where they’re at.
How Would You Build A Community With A New Trading Platform or Service?
I am advising on several companies that are specifically market building, one of my expertise. The product that we hope to launch in the future for DeFI is going to be more about instutional investors. A targeted market approach. Quantum economics has about 30 analyst on our team at the moment. Well-decorated industry veteran. People like me, some of them that you’d be familiar with. We do alot of groundbreaking research of the crypto market.
You can see most of the stuff that we’re producing on medium on Quantum Economics medium page and it’s contemporary stuff regarding central bank, digital and stable coin, the adoption rates of Bitcoin. And we strive to have the very best content from an analytical perspective because we always making sure that best practices are followed in research and sources of information. We’ve got quite a process. We have research sponsored by Luno Global, which is a hot wallet project. And we’re doing the daily newsletter.
DeFi Solution and the Bond Market
We have two spinoff companies of Quantum Economics which are founded using some of the members of the team and some outside members. The one that I mentioned is Quantum Equity, which is basically a DeFi solution for many managers and institutional investors. And the goal here is that the bond market, which takes place today, trillions of dollars. 30 – 40 percent of all allocated capital is a dead asset class. Ray Dalio said, this is not a secret. People are not earning yield. The government is the ingredient. They’re not actually giving people money for lending the money.
They’re just giving them half a percent or 1 percent. It’s much worse than the inflation. People understand they’re losing money. When somebody lends money to the government by buying a bond, they’re actually losing money over time. And institutional money managers realised this. We heard Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O’Leary from Shark Tank. I believe he said it best. He was like, I’m losing money over time by buying these bonds and people savers and people who don’t want risk, need to have some kind of a yield. A reward for saving and the only place they can get that right now is crypto. He’s kind of ironic the way for us as far as the regulation is concerned. Because he wants to do it for himself and he’s an incumbent and financial player. And the members of Congress on both sides of the aisle that are are appropriate though growing by the day. So that’s what I’d like to see, to be able to facilitate one for percent of that migration right from the bond market into DeFi.
Facilitating The Bond Market Into DeFi
There will be a platform where people can research DeFi, purchase insurance, audit a smart contract and do all those type of functionality within the right platform. Because what’s missing other than time is knowledge. Money managers need to feel comfortable with this market. And by logic, they should feel comfortable because rather than trusting a counterpart, they just need to trust the code. You don’t need to be a coder but they can easily hire one in most cases to verify what does the smart contract do? They’re not apes like us. Who would just go, “smart contract, let’s go”.
Traders Getting Smart About Auditing Smart Contracts
It’s important in financial services to have it, human relationship. It goes back to forever, but things change. Everything is now a financial asset. The conversation that we’re having kind of turned into a financial asset. You can make an NFT of your child, there’s no limit to the imagination here. It’s a limit to what can be done. It;s very difficult to foresee how this type of thing is going to pan out. We’re going to make it a safe and secure environment for everyone. Cause that’s what we need. There are so many scams and rug pulls and everything like that, how could somebody feel safe?
Think about the 2017 bull run and the difference between this and the last one, are the scams. If you notice on Twitter, everytime somebody puts up a tweet, there will be replies that are either phishing or bot activity. And you know that wasn’t there in 2017 and it’s there now. It is becoming more and more difficult for newcomers to navigate the markets. It’s also harder to find authenticity now because there’s so much of this bad actors in these bots and phishing going on. It’s getting hard to look between all this buzz.
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Show Transcript
Ivan Kan: My name is Ivan I’m with Mati Greenspan from he’s the CEO and founder of quantum economics, former lead market analyst at E Toro. You’re a world-renowned financial analyst. You’ve been featured on Bloomberg Forbes, wall street, you know, many, many global outlets. It’s our P to talk to you and just have a chat. Matti, thank you for joining us.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. Thanks for being flexible. Cause no one walking around here.
Ivan Kan: Life comes at you in all different forms and it’s awesome that, you know, we can be just a full digital world, right? We can all, we can keep doing these. And that kind of transitions me to the first topic I wanted to talk to you about it’s, you know, as we’re transitioning from, you know, like traditional assets to digital assets, there’s all these new models that are being built. I know we were just chatting on that play to earn gaming mastermind, but it’s interesting how the new generation is, is having a different relationship with assets. And I’m curious to ask you, you know, you you’ve been a thought leader, like how are we educating the next generation on how, how they can build their, you know, their growth model, their entire life in the digital world now?
Mati Greenspan: Yeah, man, the, the next generation is educating themselves. They’re arming themselves with knowledge and executing. It’s quite interesting to see. I mean, the notion of programmable money is still relatively new, but it’s only just reaching the, you know, mass awareness and it’s extremely exciting seeing the different kind of use cases people are coming up with. I mean, in a day when, you know, a piece of music can actually be a financial asset, you know, it’s just the, the possibilities are limitless. And, you know, I, I’m speaking with all kinds of projects every single day with interesting ideas. And I’m very optimistic about what the future holds.
Ivan Kan: It’s interesting that you say music, cuz we’re seeing with like with the advent of the N like NFTs, you know, now traditional business models are, are diving in and they’re putting NFTs or even putting PO apps. And I’m sure you know about popups, but even attendance too. it’s amazing. it’s fundamental changing things and I’m starting to see that even the younger generation, like now they’re almost skipping steps and they’re going straight to the building economies and roadblocks and it’s not, it’s not the same as what it was for us.
Crypto Trading
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. I mean, you, when something like a, you know, I, I use music as an example, right. But you know, JPEGs men, JPEG is now a financial aspect I think could be, you know, can be a security, a derivative. It can have all kind of properties that, you know, backed by, you know, backed by collateral or back, you know, basically token economic models. It’s just, it’s just amazing. I’m, you know,
Ivan Kan: It’s crazy. It’s crazy to say the least, you know, I, as we’re seeing this happen, a lot of what’s what’s going on behind the scenes are these communities like these audio NFTs pull up NFTs or just like all these digital assets, they’re, they’re really hinged on these communities that they’re being founded on. And I know you’ve seen and worked with many of them, you know, I kind of wanted to ask you because you know, you have a really big really, you have expertise background in like financial training and, you know, cryptocurrencies and trading. Where do you see those communities thriving the most?
Mati Greenspan: Yeah, that’s that really is my background. I do have a financial license from CIK for money management.
Ivan Kan: Do you sit at all?
Mati Greenspan: yeah. I mean, it we’re on this, we’re on a journey, right? It’s a transition, right. From, you know, the old analog, traditional finance to the new, and it’s reminiscent a lot of the early days of the internet where, you know, I don’t, you remember, but the early renditions of websites were like kind of clunky and like weird and, you know, just interesting and, and, and crazy with people, you know, people understood the format and they created with it. And that’s exactly what we’re seeing right now. And I think that, you know, those things will be polished over time and, we’ll hash those, those kind of things out, but basically, you know, it shows over for, for, for any kind of media and it’s, and it’s the end of the, the traditional financial markets, as we know it.
Ivan Kan: What do you see those big, the biggest, like channel distributions, because I know like you’re really active on Twitter. you’re posting a lot of things on Twitter. You have your YouTube, where, where do you see as the, like the most powerful channel at this moment for this kind of content?
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. I mean, I spend a lot of time on Twitter and LinkedIn. That’s incidental. I mean, it’s just, it’s just a way of communicating, obviously, you know, we’ve got our newsletter as well that we’re sending out to, you know, for free to, to whoever wants it. Anyways. I, I, I feel like we find a better social media outlet or, or platform at some point. I mean, Twitter’s not perfect. It’s got its flaws. And I think that we’ll have, I think that steam was a great contender though. It never really,
Ivan Kan: Yeah. It didn’t really pan out.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. It didn’t pan out, but you know what, for every Facebook out there, there’s probably dozens of, you know, ones that tried beforehand. That’s the one that stuck, that’s the one that managed to reach, you know, mass market adoption. It didn’t happen instantly at the time. I remember, but you know, the day it’s pretty Facebook years before Facebook social networks were ex you know, they did exist. And, you know, that was just, that was just the one that, that made it big, you know? And I think that these type of things, a as we go, well, we’ll experiment more and more until, until we get it right.
Ivan Kan: Yeah. We’re seeing this latest iteration in like discord, Twitter spaces. How, how are you? Have you tried using those channels and, and what do you think about them?
Mati Greenspan: Oh yeah. Extensively my firm, quantum economics is running probably around 20 to 30 Twitter spaces in a month and we just started posting central end events.
Ivan Kan: I noticed. Yeah, that was awesome.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s something new, it’s a bit it’s, it’s clunky, right? It’s again, it’s, it’s like the early days of the internet. It’s not easy. There’s technical glitches. Twitter spaces is terrible. If you’re not using an iPhone to be quite, to be perfectly Frank. I mean, it, it just, you know, just doesn’t, it doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. It’s not a stable platform. Discord and telegram are a lot more stable for that. So, but, but the scene isn’t there. I mean, the scene is on, is really on Twitter spaces at the moment, but people, people migrate platforms rather quickly, you know, given and given, given the, the, the content and network effect.
Ivan Kan: Awesome. See a lot of our guests have been asking this question actually, because you, you were the lead market analyst at E Toro. And I remember at one point, you know, I was at consensus, I think it was 2017, 2018, but they sponsored everything from the chair. Like the escalators I even saw, like the, you know, in the main hall, even the chair covers were E Toro. It was E Toro was literally.
Mati Greenspan: The branding.
Ivan Kan: It was the brand. The branding was so strong. Tell us about like working at E Toro. How was it like there’s a lot of people wanna know how it was at that time for you.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. I mean, E Toro is amazing place. I have, you know, only good experiences working at E Toro. I really love yo the CEO. I mean, there’s like a door to be,
Ivan Kan: They had the the right product at the right time. Also, like people were really starting to get into trading and, and they were the first ones to come up this model, or at least to make it like branded in a way that people could easily understand. Which was amazing.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. When, when I was there anyways, and especially in the early days, there was always this sense of, you know, listening to the customer and, you know, implementing all of the, a copy trading, the entire idea. I mean, you know, it didn’t come up in a board room or something like that, you know, it was literally, you know, eToro talking to their customers and going, what can we do and, and how can we make, and the first, the first iteration of like social trading was like a chat room that was right inside the platform. Wow.
Right. That, that users can talk to other users, you know, most, most brokers don’t wanna do that. And especially brokers in the, you know, in the retail section where, you know, clients are losing money and over fist, especially with leverage trading or whatever, but they did it and they did it quite successfully. And then, you know, obviously the next stepping stone in that was, you know, people going well, I just bought apple and I made so much money and people are going, no, you’re a liar. You didn’t really do that. Right. And people are going, Hey, wait a second. Maybe we can verify this. And then they came up with their, you know, open book product, which, you know, actually showed people’s portfolio and, and their history of trades and their stats and everything like that. And then, you know, easy progression from there to go like, okay, I can see his portfolio. Let me copy that. Now I wanna copy him. Yeah. Right. And that was, that was the killer app right there. Especially as you know, during the rise of, of social media and social networks in general. Exactly. Like you said, the right time. Right place.
Ivan Kan: It was incredible because also, like, I mean, with digital assets and, you know, know, it’s not only, it’s not only that it’s transparent, but it’s also 24 7, so now you’re opening it up to, you know, any, anybody anywhere can jump in Anytime.
Yeah. It’s incredible. So how did those communities, I mean, I kind of hear the story. It’s like, it was created from these community once and they started in the chat room, but they, it, and you know, this is, this is really important because a lot of projects we work with, they have these ideas, but sometimes they work in a vacuum and they don’t really pull the input from the communities, which is from what I’m hearing, probably the most important part.
Mati Greenspan: It exactly was. And because it, it wasn’t, you know, done right the first time, you know, copy treated, there were many different iterations of it. And it was always, I mean, I, I watched the entire progression, you know, up until, you know, we were able to see significant improvement overall in user performance, which to me, in my mind, that was it. It’s like, I remember I’ve been in this industry forever and I’ve seen, so I’ve been an account manager, you know, an online brokers in, in many different online brokers. And I just seen, I’ve literally seen thousands of people get wrecked in my lifetime, like literally, and to see a platform that came and, you know, cared about their users enough to create products that helped them, that journey to learn the markets and to improve performance, you know? And then there are also among the first to kinda work with regulators and make sure that they kind of profiled their users, risk appetite, and gave them different products based on that risk appetite. And it’s, in my mind, it’s a, it’s an amazing thing. And I, I think that there, you know, especially for beginning traders or people who don’t necessarily know what to do and, you know, and I think that there are a lot at this time, you know, in, in history,
Ivan Kan: More people are looking into this area than before, because they got social media, they have these communities, they have YouTube followers, YouTube channels. Like a lot of people are piling into this world right now.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. Yeah.
Ivan Kan: So you could say that Etoro was the original community for these copy traders,
Mati Greenspan: hundred percent, the original metaverse. Right.
Ivan Kan: So, what if I can have you summarize in like three things, like what made that E community so sticky? Like, what was it, what did E Toro do? Right. Because there was a lot of projects, products that were trying this, and somehow E was the one that just, you know, caught that branding. Like, if you can break down, like what, what, what do you think made that happen?
Mati Greenspan: Well,
First of all, they invented it. So there’s that.
Ivan Kan: They’re the first mover advantage. Yes,
Mati Greenspan: Certainly. But here’s the thing about market building, right? There’s always the chicken and the egg, right. You need, you need, if you have a, if you have a kind of a broker service, you say, okay, you need people who are selling and you need people who are buying things. So if you have a product like copy trader you’d need, you know, people who are doing well on the platform enough to copy, and then you need also people who are copying and eToro, as you know, they were, they were already had, you know, many act of users when they started launching the products. So there was that, let me just give me three seconds. I need to bill for it.
Ivan Kan: It’s interesting what Mati Greenspan was saying. There were the first ones to create the copy trading. There actually was. So before, before turtle there’s things like algorithmic copy trading, but I think what, the way E Toro did it was they really highlighted the personalities and the people behind the trades. I love to hear more when Mati Greenspan gets back.
Mati Greenspan: All right, I’m here.
Ivan Kan: All right. I was just saying earlier, so there, before ETORO, I believe there was algorithmic. Like, you can copy someone’s algorithms, but eToro were they, were they, I think they were the ones that put a face behind it and said, you can copy this particular person.
Mati Greenspan: I don’t know what other people are been doing in the market. I mean, I know that there were a few copycats for the copy trader product. , I, I don’t remember. I must have looked into them at the time, you know as part of, you know, making sure that we had a, a significant moat in front of the market, but the answer was always yes, we do. And OK. They’re not coming close to what we’re doing here. So yeah. You know, effort, like literally I remember the conversations internally at the time and, you know, is like, should we take action? Like, you know, start, you know, patenting copy trader and going after people for that. Cause it, you know, it’s certainly, Yeah. A patent, right. Legal action. The answer was always, we don’t need to it’s okay. Let’s just focus on improving the product and continue to build it. And that was the, that was the Mo is just running faster than your, than the competitors running much faster. And you really care where they’re at.
Ivan Kan: Wow. That’s, that’s good insights. So if you, if you were to do it all over again, and like, if you’re in that same shoes and you’re launching, let’s say a copy trading or like some new trading platform or service, how would you build a community differently today than it did back then?
Mati Greenspan: Well, I mean, I am advising on several companies that are specifically market building is, you know, one of my expertise for, you know, the product that we hope to launch in the future for Defi is gonna be more about institutional investors. And that’s, a bit more of a kind of, You know, a targeted market approach. But I, can you tell us more about it’s gonna About the, the defi platform?
Ivan Kan: Yeah. Some of the projects that you’re working on.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. So, okay. So quantum economics has about 30 analysts on our team at the moment. You know, each one is, well decorated industry veteran and like yourself, correct. Yeah. People like people like me probably names some of them that you you’d be familiar with. You, you can see everybody on our, about us page. And we do a lot of research, groundbreaking research of the crypto market. You know, everybody says, do your own research. So yeah, actually we, we, we do that for you. So you can see most of the stuff that we’re producing on medium on the quantum economics medium page, and it’s contemporary stuff regarding, you know, central bank, digital and stable Bitcoin, the, the adoption rates of Bitcoin. And we, we strive to have actually, we, we do have the very best content from an analytical perspective because we always making sure that best practices are followed in re research and sources of information and things like that.
So, yeah, we’ve got, quite a process. So the research we have researched sponsored by Luno global, which is hot wallet project of very silver and, we’re doing the daily, the daily newsletter, as I mentioned. So we also have two spinoff companies of quantum economics, which are founded using some of the members of the team and some outside members. Collaborate. The one that I mentioned is quantum equity, which is basically a defi solution for many managers and institutional investors. And the goal here is that as we know the bond market, which takes place today, trillions of dollars, probably, you know, some 30 to 40% of all allocated capital, you know, it’s a dead asset class. I mean, you know, and Ray Dalio said it, yeah, this is not a secret. People are not earning yield. The government is get ingredient.
They’re not actually giving people money for lending the money. They’re just giving them like half a percent or, or 1%. And in any case, it’s much worse than the inflation. So people understand they’re losing, When somebody lends money to the government, by buying a bond, they’re actually losing money over time. And institutional money managers realized this. We heard Mr. Wonderful Kevin Leary from shark tank. I believe he said it best. He was like, well, you know, I’m losing money over time. And, but by buying these bonds and, you know, people savers and people who are, who don’t want risk, need to have some kind of a yield,
A reward for saving and the only place they can get that right now is crypto. So he’s kinda ironic the way for us as far as the regulation is concerned. Cause he wants to do it for himself and he’s an incumbent and financial players. So yeah. I mean, he’s, you know, he’s the kind of guy who’s got those strings to do it and he’s, and he’s certainly not alone. And the, the members of Congress on both sides of the aisle that are appropriate though growing by the day. So that, so what I’d like to see is, you know, be able to facilitate one for percent of that migration, right from the bond market into defi. Then I, then I’ll be able to that up.
Ivan Kan: That’s a massive 1%. It’s
Huge.
Mati Greenspan: Oh, I just wanted just 1%, man. That’s one. That’s all I want.
But no, I wanna give people a platform where they can research defi, you know, purchase insurance, audit a smart contract, you know, do all those type of, you know, functionality right within the right within the platform because what’s missing, you know, the only thing that’s missing and other than, than time is, is knowledge. And, you know, I think that they, that those money managers need to feel comfortable with this market. And by logic, you know, they should feel comfortable because, you know, rather than trusting a counterpart, they just need to trust the code. And, you know, they don’t need to be a coder, but they can easily hire one in most cases to verify what does the smart contract do? You know? They’re, they’re not apes like us, who would just go, oh yeah, smart contract. Let’s go,
Ivan Kan: You know, Matti, the way you’re describing that is fascinating because it’s, it’s now traders are having to get more smart. Like they’re auditing the smart contracts, even on the marketing agency side. Cuz I, you know, I run a marketing agency, we’re starting to have to audit code of our, our clients for that same reason. It’s like, we have to know better. We know what, who we’re getting involved with.
Mati Greenspan: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s IM it’s important in financial services to have it, you know, a I’m in relationship. Yeah. And I think that, that, you know, goes back to forever, but things change, you know, and I don’t think that in the future of finance, I mean, well, as we started out the conversation, honestly, everything is now a financial asset, You, me, the, the conversation that we’re having kind of be turned into a financial asset. We, you know, you, you can make an NFT of your know, it’s like, there’s no, there’s no limit to the imagination here. It’s a limit to what can be done. So it’s very difficult to foresee how this type of thing is gonna, is gonna pan out.
But you know, these are, these are, is there interesting times that we live in and we’re gonna, we’re gonna, you know, make sure that it’s a safe and secure environment for everyone. Cause that’s what we need. I mean, there’s so many scams and rug pulls and everything like that, that how could somebody feel safe? I mean, think about the 2017 bull run and the different between this and the last one is the scams. I don’t know if you notice on Twitter, like every time, you know, somebody puts a post up on, puts a tweet every time I tweet something I’m gonna have at least three, four replies that are like totally either fishing or bot activity.
And you know that wasn’t there in, in 2017 and it’s there now and it’s becoming more and more difficult for newcomers to navigate the markets
Ivan Kan: It’s also harder to find authenticity now because there’s so much of this bad actors in, and these bots and these fishings going on that it’s, it’s even, it’s getting harder to, to look between, look underneath, you know, all of this buzz.
But that’s exactly why Matti, like we, we, we wanna build a relationship to you and like have a chat with you because you’re at the forefront and the things that you’re sharing with our community, this is the kind of education that we wanna freely distribute and just, you know, educate people. What’s coming down the pipeline. What, you know, what is next in the, you know, crypto trading world? How do these communities live? And you know, we always value these chats with you, me and excited, you know, thank you for sharing that time with us. I know, I know you’re short on time, but you, we have a lot of other topics we can talk about, but we’ll keep it. We’ll keep it short Sweet here.
Mati Greenspan: All right, man. Well actually I have to say it’s been fun. So Yeah. I appreciate that,
Ivan Kan: Mati Thanks for your time. And we’ll definitely connect again.
Mati Greenspan: We’ll see you soon.
Ivan Kan: All right, bye
